Why The Hate of Backdoor?

[carslover]

Thats my main concern! If I were to buy Lizzie right now backdoor for $12 great price right? Well say TRU starts selling them as part of the RSC line. Odds are I will be able to get them for $4. Same thing with Frank..I've been seeing some good prices on him lately, but what if we start seeing him released?

But then on the other side lets say these were just "Midnight Runs" and I miss the opportunity to pick one of these hard to find items up for a good price!!

Its a tough game these cars!!!

you just have to roll the dice and decide if you want to risk not getting one

[carslover]

i dont consider backdoor cars fakes
if they make something that has never been released or is not going to be released then it is a custom
my objection to backdoor cars is that in the beginning they were mattel rejects and most had some sort of damage on it
there have been alot of backdoors lately that look like they were made to be backdoors and have no damage
that is fine as long as they don't pass them off as legimate and try to sell them for large prices, ex the chase cars etc
i have several backdoor cars and i only buy the ones i can't find anywhere else
i try to wait, but sometimes they never show in the stores

[John in Missouri]

As per topic why some Cars Collectors hate the backdoor Cars?

For the same reasons I don't buy a stereo from the back of a guy's van in an alley late at night, or a DVD for $5 off a table in Times Square, or a "Rolex" at a garage sale.

I want the genuine article!

[Fillmore1234]

I bought many cheap Cars from backdoor sellers last year. A couple came from boonshop4u, four were from honger_hehe, one was from celeste7627 and about 5 others were from a seller whose name was just a bunch of numbers, I think it was 276470.

The only one that was a slight problem was one I've shown many times, a very badly scratched up Kyandee. I won't name names, but the seller was extremely helpful when I notified him/her about the issue. The seller said the others he/she could refund me with were in a similar condition, so the seller decided to refund the whole price (except for shipping) and even let me keep the Car.

I recommend buying from all of these sellers, though I would definitely recommend messaging the seller first to see if they could send the Car with the least amount of flaws, or if there was one they had in stock with no flaws at all.

[e.davies1]

Out of curiosity, by naming sellers of back door items, aren't we pretty much telling Mattel who is stealing from them? My current understanding of a back door car is that they are not licensed, not authorized, and not legal. Not that i am an angel, but I try not to support that whenever I can, especially when that support would take away money from companies in my home country, including Disney and Mattel.

[wintermelon]

Thanks guys for all the wonderful point of view.
I have seen some collectors get so mad just because certain people could get items that yet to be available.
I don't understand why need to be angry? Just like what lovemini commented that these stuff will sooner be available to the mass.
Lost sales is never a good thing for a company.

As for fake. I have seen some Fake Cars 2 and i guess some members had pointed out in the past.
I have a fake 1:55 scale Holley which is based on the tomica version. I will take a picture if i can locate her from my box.

Another opinion needed
How about backdoor/fake apple? do you guys have any opinion on Apple Car?
Recently, i read a post from CTT and the OP stated that the new batch of Apple Car is almost as good as the real one.
I don't mind buying a backdoor/fake because the real one might cost me a fortune.
However from the CTT thread it sounds like sellers are using the fake to disguise as real?
This really worries me and definitely not something i like.

Any insight or input? Recently, there isn't any backdoor seller is selling Apple Cars.. So, I am wondering where is the so called new generation of fake is coming out from? Custom? backdoor?

Out of curiosity, by naming sellers of back door items, aren't we pretty much telling Mattel who is stealing from them? My current understanding of a back door car is that they are not licensed, not authorized, and not legal. Not that i am an angel, but I try not to support that whenever I can, especially when that support would take away money from companies in my home country, including Disney and Mattel.

I definitely agree with you on the taking money away from companies that is from your home country.
Actually if there is a choice i will go for the authentic route this is why i have a bunch of carded stuff
However, I always try to make sure i don't overpay too much for a Car. If not i really have to declare bankruptcy which i am already in some financial slump.

[PopeMobile]

I understand why people buy backdoors but respectfully I disagree with doing that and it has no part in my collection. I don't like backdoors because these are stolen items right off the factory line - hence the term going out the 'backdoor'. Other backdoors are fakes (i.e. Apple car). The counterfeiters know that a genuine Apple car sells around $700-$1000 so if they can can produce a good looking fake by a couple bucks and pass it off as genuine then that is a really nice return on their investment. Likewise just selling a backdoor Apple for $75 is still a nice profit margin but the car isn't the genuine 1 of 1000 that were produced. By buying backdoors it just supports this practice of counterfeiting and stealing items out of the factory and although as a buyer it is very cheap that way I believe it is wrong. Where do you guys think all these leaked pictures of upcoming product come from? These are items right off the factory line. Yes I enjoy the photos too and it gives me insight into what's coming out, but when I buy that item it will be sealed in Mattel packaging. Just my personal feelings here and like I said I understand why others like the backdoors but it's not for me.

[GotFrank]

Three "what if(s)?" :

What if the factory produces an over-run of each item? To ensure a contracted delivery quantities to the customer (Mattel). While still accounting for any lost due to failure to meet quality control standards. Or loss or damage during the manufacturing process. Using materials owned by the company\Chinese government. (An externality paid by all the people of China most likely.) So not an out-of-pocket for Mattel in this scenario.

And what if there's no contractual obligation to destroy any items produced in these factory over-runs?


Or; What if Mattel has authorized the release of a quantity of these backdoor items? To gain exposure for the items before they are released. In doing so they are featured not only on Ebay . But on the Collectors' boards such as this. Generating excitement and allowing collectors to plan their next purchase (ensuring they hang on and spend their money). Or possibly selling them on Ebay (through a secondary party). Allows Mattel to manipulate the perceived value of the item. Then once that's done release it in a muti-pack. With other Cars that are failing to sell well. Making the shelf price lower than the recent Ebay amounts. Thereby insuring the sale with a manipulated perceived value. At the same time liquidating unwanted product (peg-warmers).

The fact is I would bet nearly none of us work at the factory or Mattel. And can only speculate at what is actually going on with back door releases. Just my twenty-two cents.

[PopeMobile]

That's trying to justify it by stretching for examples. China has a history of counterfeiting goods and this is no different. Look at all the piracy of handbags, DVDs, electronics (remember the story last year on how Apple sued because there was a 'genuine' Apple store operating in China with all the Apples logos and merchandise for sale. The only problem? It wasn't really an Apple store and was just a charade). NHL jerseys are another one - people don't want to pay $400 for an authentic NHL jersey so they buy the $50 knock off that comes from China. The United States has pressed the Chinese government to crack down on the proliferation of counterfeiting and running products out the backdoor but so far the government turns a blind eye to the practice cause it keeps jobs in their economy and money flowing through the system.

[cac1959]

Good points.

Several years ago the "backdoor" to the factory was shut for awhile... we didn't see upcoming Cars or other toys and merchandise listed on eBay.

Hopefully we'll continue to see what's going to be coming in the not too distant future... I know that there were Cars from the past that we saw on eBay that still to this day have not been released (N2O Cola Crew Chief and Pittys, Easy Idle Crew Chief and Pittys, Mood Springs Pitty, etc.)...

And I'd like to see pictures of the new Apple Cars... I have the one from my Speedway of the South set as well as a customs and plan to order a new custom Apple from Custom ToyRevolution one of these days.

[GotFrank]

PopeMobile your examples are moot since the "knockoffs" that you are referring to are produced in different "factory". The vast majority of backdoor Cars items are coming from the same factory as the ones in the package in retail. So an apple and an orange.

As a matter of fact the prices you give further illustrates the point. A knockoff has less value in the secondary market. And backdoor Cars fetch a premium price.

The new Apple Cars that Chris is referring to are more than likely knockoffs.

[PopeMobile]

The point I was making is that there is proliferation of goods coming from China. It can take 2 forms:

1) One is counterfeiting like DVDs, hand bags, and NHL jerseys that I mentioned. Those are made to look genuine but really are not. The new load of Apple Cars that we all got a heads up on recently will ALL be counterfeit - made to look like the genuine one but will still have slight differences that show they are fake. Other example, the 50 Red Ransburg that has been faked more times than not. Anything collectible of value will be faked by the counterfeiters.
2) The other example of proliferation are the backdoor cars. Yes these are indeed the genuine product that would be placed in Mattel packaging but the workers steal them right off the line, run them out the backdoor and sell them on ebay for a premium to those who have to be 'first' to have the new car. Case in point: look at the huge prices Mary Esgocar fetched before she was released at the last Kmart day. Buyers were paying $90 or more just to have a backdoor of her. Then once the official release of the car is done by Mattel the backdoor prices drop to be lower than the Mattel product and therefore it attracts those that want the car at the cheapest price. Still plenty of profit in it and cycle continues. Backdoors can be also be produced by a production 'accidental' overrun, midnight runs, or items pulled off the line for supposed 'quality control' issues. The end result is still the same - it's cheating.

[GotFrank]

On #1 I just said there are counterfeit Apples coming out. Why repeat what I just said? And the Red Ransburgs were either "factory customs" from the Mattel factory. Something anyone can see by the condition of the rivets and the quality of them.





A distinct mushroom shape with a recessed center. Something not on the upcoming knockoff Apples. But common on almost all Mattle "made" Cars. Or obvious customs made outside of China primarily made by Custom Toy Revolution. here in the US.

But "the workers steal them right off the line" that is just speculation. There is no proof one way or the other there. Feel free to share any proof that anyone "stole" anything with all of us.

On #2 People pay a ton of money for these on Ebay, I just said as much in my first post... As for the operation or "fairness" of a factory in China. That is outside the possibility of me knowing any truth of what goes on there. And beyond yours as well I suspect. Get as mad about it as you'd like, imagining what goes on there. But it will change nothing.

[PopeMobile]

I gave several examples differing a counterfeit from a backdoor. Both are still stealing. You can justify the backdoor stuff all you want but I disagree and it will never have any place in my collection. And let's be realistic - it's not like the factory has a cash register at the backdoor for employees to pay for their cars they took off the line before they leave. So you can say it's not stealing, give more examples on how Mattel is fine with it cause it promotes their products, and assume it's all paid for and on the up-and-up but with all the proliferation of goods coming out of China and no controls by the government on stopping it I believe backdoor cars are indeed stolen product.

[GotFrank]

"I believe backdoor cars are indeed stolen product."

Yeah I think everyone gets that. But it's still speculation either way. Stolen or not there's no way to know the truth unless you are directly involved. And neither of us are. So it's possibility & probability. But you insist on absolutes. And started out calling backdoor Cars counterfeits, which more often than not they are not. Stolen or leaked, they are made in the Mattel factory primarily.